Mending on the Fly

Untitled project from SquadCast
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Track 1: [00:00:00] Uh, there we go. Should be recording. And then if you don't mind, we'll just get a couple seconds of silence and

that will help me do the, um, sound editing afterwards. Um, and, uh, so yeah, if you're good, we'll just go ahead and kick it off.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, you lead the way, man, wherever you want to go.

Track 1: Okay, cool. Sounds good. Well, uh, I am grateful to host Ryan Johnston, the creator and executive director of Cast Hope, renowned author and fly fishing guide who seems to have amassed more life lessons than fish on the water. Ryan brings us tales from his memorable guiding adventures and personal insights into how fishing fosters connections with nature, ourselves, and those with whom we share the water with.

Through his work with Cast Hope, he aims to give the next generation the gift of the outdoors. The organization [00:01:00] showcases fly fishing as a powerful tool for conservation, mentorship, and exploring the great outdoors. I'm thankful to you, the listener, that you're joining Ryan and I as we discuss Ryan's journey and the impactful stories that define his mission and passion.

Ryan, thank you so much for being here. Look forward to talking to you.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, it's going to be great. Thank you.

Track 1: One, one thing. Before we even get started, I, I spoke with Dave Zielinski, the A few weeks ago, and he dedicates this book to his dad, he wrote, uh, Cicada Madness and, um, in your bio in cast on the cast hope website, there was a part that says Ryan's father.

Taught him that each day on the water is a gift from God. And we must be grateful for the opportunity to live in a country where we have the freedom to pursue our passions. So of course, Ryan's passion is to spend time fly [00:02:00] fishing with those he loves. And as a dad of two. Little boys have got a two year old and a four year old.

Um, like I just love seeing that stuff. And I know there's a lot of, uh, women anglers out there too. And I think the same thing applies to moms who take their kids fly fishing or, you know, any parents that are out there, grandparents. Um, but, uh, you know, with, with that in mind, it sounds like your dad kind of got you started, but why, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and, and how you found the water?

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, I, um, I've been fishing pretty much since I was four years old and that was due to my father, Daryl. And, uh, you know, Daryl put a Snoopy rod in my hand when I was little and we started off, um, local ponds and lakes and, um, you know, targeting bluegill and bass and, you know, just kind of introducing his son to something he enjoyed. Um, you know, my dad still [00:03:00] to today, I'm, You know, gonna be 42 this year. Uh, my dad's still one of my best friends. Um, the biggest things we connect on is fishing. Um, you know, he kind of paved a way. He introduced conventional fishing to us, uh, to me. um, at the age of 12, we'd go on our first fly fishing experience. Uh, I was pretty blessed. My grandfather ended up buying a ranch in Western Wyoming in the early

Track 1: Oh, that sounds incredible, dude.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah. So we went, we went up there for a two week road trip and family vacation. And, um, I'm one of those spoiled only kids. I'm one of the weird ones. I don't have any siblings.

Track 1: Me too, man. No worries. We're not alone.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah. Um, so for my birthday, um, my 12th birthday, my dad's like, Hey, let's give this fly fishing thing a try. And, uh, my grandfather's property was about an hour from the South Fork of the Snake River. One of the [00:04:00] probably top 10 most renowned dry fly fisheries in

Track 1: Oh,

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: And so my first experience with fly fishing was on the South Fork, you know, casting at banks and watching cutties rise up to, you know, stone flies and hoppers and, um, something about watching that cutthroat come off the depths and rise to a dry fly.

I was instantly hooked. Um, and so I told my dad, like, I want to start doing this. And, uh, literally the next day we were in a local fly shop that was half, half hunting, half fishing store. And, uh, we bought a Finwick fly rod and, uh, that kind of started the journey. My dad never understood that, know, what, what he had started.

Um, and as parents, we just, you know, we're, we're putting these little, um, seeds into the ground with our kids. And we just don't know which ones are going to take root. Um, I'm a father as well. I, I'm opposite of you. I have two girls, um, I'm a little further ahead, but,

Track 1: okay.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: I have a 13 year old girl and a 10 year old girl, um, I take them fishing, uh, probably not as[00:05:00]

Track 1: That's awesome.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: but you know, we get out probably three or four times a year.

Um, yeah, so my, when you talk to my dad now, you know, he's like, he he'll tell you, I never understood or realized the path I was blazing for my son. And, um, you know, him taking me fishing as a young kid would end up me, uh, pursuing a career as a guide. in my early twenties, so I started guiding in 2003, uh, spent 20 years

Track 1: Mm

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: um, kind of North of Sacramento on the Sacramento River, uh, Feather River, Yuba rivers.

Um, and the cool thing about Northern California is that you have a lot of fish cohabitating together. So you can fish for trout, steelhead, uh, salmon, stripers, large mouth, small mouth, uh, depending on the season. So. and then NorCal, there's really no off season, right? Like you pretty much can fish year round. Um,

Track 1: hmm. Just beautiful. Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, it's really common for guides in California to be doing 200, 230 days a year on the [00:06:00] water. so

Track 1: Wow.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: that, that passion would, uh, ultimately, like you've already said, lead into, um, wanting to give back to my own community. starting a fly fishing nonprofit for kids, uh, called cast hope um, cast soap is 14 years in now, and it's been a huge blessing.

It's been a learning process anytime when you start a company. Um, but we now have four regions of cast hope. Uh, we have, um, one in San Diego. Um, we have one in Northern California, uh, one in Reno, Nevada, and we just started a fourth region last summer and, um, Asheville, North Carolina. So. It's been a, it's been a huge blessing.

Track 1: Oh, awesome.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah. We, we got 750 kids

Track 1: We're branching out to the East Coast a little bit.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah. Um,

Track 1: Wow.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Cast Soap to Montana, um, here within the next year. We just, we're looking for the funding to do that. And yeah, my wife

Track 1: Yeah, can, can you, [00:07:00] sorry, how did it, how did it all come about?

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: yeah, Cast

Track 1: Like, what, what's, what, in 2010, I guess. Yeah. Nice.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: year. Um, so I, uh, met my wife, in college. I was a freshman in college when I met my wife. for four years and then jumped in pretty early. So we got married two weeks after we graduated in our early twenties uh, we,

Track 1: Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, so we, we, uh, we definitely jumped in soon.

Um, we took our, uh,

Track 1: Yeah, you know, it's funny. It's funny because my, my, my wife and I got married really young to met in college. Uh, so that, that's funny. I get it. Yeah. We were like, I think I was 25 and she was 24 or 23,

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: well, you, you grew up

Track 1: but yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: mean,

Track 1: What could go wrong? Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: yeah, the joys of [00:08:00] marriage. Uh, I say anyone, anyone who's still married, man, hats off to you. Like that's, you know, marriage

Track 1: Yeah. Likewise.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: of great things, but you know, there's a lot of patience and love that has to go there too. Um,

Track 1: That's right.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: so,

Track 1: I'm glad my wife has love and patience for me. So that's good.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: so yeah, so we ended up

Track 1: Yeah,

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: we ended up going to grad school after we graduated and I was guiding full time by that point. And, uh, so I did an MBA part time, um, and my wife and I attended a Presbyterian church in Chico, California. And our pastor was talking about using your personal gifts, like tangible things that you do to bless your community. so most Sundays, if you go to church, you walk in and you walk out and whatever sermon you heard goes in one ear and out the other, you know, but that Sunday I just couldn't get it out of my head. Um, so I just kind of really started reevaluating what I was doing for the [00:09:00] town of Chico, like what I personally, what impact was I making? So, um, as I was in high school and college, I always kind of had a passion for youth. I had volunteered for a lot of youth organizations, and so I decided I was just going to donate one trip a month encourage, you know, some kids having a hard time in life, right? And so that started off the first month was the kids whose parents was going through divorce, kind of dealing with that separation of the family. That would lead into, you know, a kid, you know, battling cancer. And then six months into this process, I had this junior high kid come out with his uncle and the junior high kid, his father had passed away the year before a tragic death in the family. And so the uncle was stepping into this kid's life, trying to be that male, male role model for him, right.

Stepping in, you know, to replace, um, his brother. And, uh, we were on the Sacramento river. Uh, the kid hooked and caught. His second rainbow he turns around to his uncle in the back of the drift boat and he goes, this is the coolest [00:10:00] thing I've ever done. I want to go buy a fly rod and I want to start fly fishing with you. And I just had this huge God moment, holy shit moment, whatever you want to call it. And I just said, you know, I had to figure out how to

Track 1: yeah,

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: than once a month, you know, so. all the steps were in place. I was doing my MBA part time and I had an option of creating a business plan rather than writing a thesis. And so with two professors, uh, we created

Track 1: perfect.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: what Castle could be, right? Um, so I finished my MBA, took a month off. And then a month later I was applying for the non profit status. And, I never, I never expected at that time that Cast Oak would grow outside of Northern California. I just did it because I wanted to bless kids in my community. I never imagined that.

Track 1: Yeah,

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: of people and clients would get behind this idea and then grow the organization to where it is now. that's, that's been the humbling part of the process is, um, being the founder and still being the one walking with the, the [00:11:00] organization. And like I said, 750 kids went fishing last year because of, um, you know, Castlope's efforts and our donors who support us. Um, So, and,

Track 1: that is, I mean, it's just, it's just, that's awesome. You know, I love hearing the stories about some of these organizations that do stuff like this. Like, I talked to Susan Gates a couple months ago or two months ago about, uh, Casting for recovery. Um, like the, and so what is it to you about fly fishing?

That is so special.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: you know, I think a lot of people have different answers to this question. Um, for, for me, uh, fly fishing is just complex enough. It's just advanced enough that. It mentally, you know, you have freedom, um, when you're on the water, let's say you're fishing for [00:12:00] trout, right? You have to cast, you have to mend, you have to set the hook, you have to strip, to match hatches.

There, there's so much happening around you that, you know, it takes time to learn when you're an angler. but. It's not just casting a lure and reeling in, like when you just cast a conventional spinning rod and reel a lure in, there's so much space for thought, really hard to detach, you know, but I think with fly fishing, having a few more complexities and having more technique involved, it allows your mind to rest, you know, you're constantly thinking while in the water, but you're thinking about what's happening, not what's, you're, What's going on with your family, not what's happening at work, struggle or trauma you're dealing with in your life at currently, you know?

And, um, I think that's the beauty of it is that. creates this mental peace, you know, yeah, if you read through my books and stuff, I talk a lot about connection. I think it creates a lot of amazing relationships, but you know, um, [00:13:00] fishing to me, it's, it's a time for my mind to be calm and kind of mentally check out.

Right.

Track 1: Yeah, it's interesting. I actually, um, when I flipped open your book, I actually started with your last chapter in, uh, your, your second book, really unbelievable fly fishing guide stories. And, uh, in the last chapter, you talk about how. Uh, well, it's, it's titled real relationships. It's about the, um, you know, the connections that you form with, with people on the water.

And I certainly share that experience. And, um, yeah, I find fly fishing to be the kind of ultimate meditative getaway. Uh, even if, you know, you're just driving 20 minutes down the road to hit a little stream, uh, it's like a way to just check out for a little bit. Uh, get your mind right, get some fresh air [00:14:00] and, um, just think about nothing but being on the water.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah. I mean,

Track 1: so, uh, you know, I can imagine how helpful that is, especially for, for folks that like, truly need it, you know?

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, I, you know, as in life, right when we work, we have children, we have spouses like there's so much happening around us all the time, like we're constantly bombarded by screens, our phones, and when you get that, let's say, two hours, four hours or however long you're out there. I mean, we're not talking about walking out to the wilderness to have, you know, some backpacking trip, right? We're talking about detaching from life from a short period of time. know, and that, I think that's the beauty of fly fishing is it's just complex enough that allows that mind to, to calm down and, know, like having kids is a joy. It's the greatest gift in life. Like it's the coolest, but it's the hardest thing you ever do, you know, [00:15:00] um, as parents, wives and husbands, we need space to, you know, uh, and have our own, you know, time to ourselves.

And fly fishing does that. I mean, it's, it's, it's a peaceful situation. Now there's situations where it's not right. Like if you're going to go fish for tarpon in Florida or go chase Marlin in Mexico, it's the complete opposite from peaceful. but if you're talking about detaching on the

Track 1: Right.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: or just going to your local watershed, then yes, it's, it's, it's really healing.

Track 1: What, uh, so, I mean, obviously that first story, which that, that, that one kid, I think, you know, is like a great inspiration for this, but, um, how, how are other kids affected by this? And what sort of age ranges are you looking at? Um, and understanding that there's like. Kind of the full spectrum of, of kids that come out on the water, [00:16:00] you know, you've already given a couple examples, but, um, what sort of changes do you see in the kids just, just from a day on the water?

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, so we, we target underserved. I mean, it's a really vague term, you know, a lot of our kids are coming

Track 1: Yeah. Okay. Whatever. Yep. Yeah. Yep. You were like, not going to happen. Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: target 10 to 18 and the later elementary school. Um, a big difference to cast hope versus a lot of nonprofit organizations. Um, we, we really believe that a one time experience doesn't create change. we also believe that fishing doesn't create change. Uh, what we believe is that the goal for CASTHOPE is to get to a kid to come back to as many fishing experiences as possible to create [00:17:00] long term relationship and that through relationship with people, like that's what creates change in a child, right?

Like knowing that someone values you, someone wants to be with you, someone wants to spend time with you. If you come from a safe, normal home where you have, even if your parents are divorced, like, you know, half of the country, you know, like, But if you're still in a spot where you're safe and you're cared for, there's a message of that you're valued when you come from a trauma based situation. Some of these kids don't even know their parents, right? Like they don't know that they're valued. Right. And so, um, life change happens by getting that kid to come, come back to multiple experiences. So when I was founding the organization. I was founding it from a guiding perspective, not an angler's perspective, right? so my thought process was, okay, if people create change, then we need that kid to come back as frequently as possible. do you get that kid stoked on fishing right off the bat? Well, you put them in a guide's boat and you [00:18:00] increase their chances of catching as many fish as possible in their first experience. You know, so we have about 30 guides who work for Cast Hope in our regions, and all the guides are paid half of their normal daily rate. So they are getting compensated for their time, but they're also giving back to their community by taking less money. You know, so these kids get into these guide boats and Instantly, they have the highest chance possible of catching a couple fish and, you know, coming back to a second experience.

So most of our kids, I mean, I'm going to throw out a random number here, but it's probably 95 percent of our kids are catching fish on their first trip, you know, from San Diego and fishing the days to Northern California. Like we have very few kids who don't experience landing a fish, whether it's a bass or trout. Whatever. Um, so what happens naturally is through these experiences as kids come back multiple times, you start [00:19:00] building that relationship with the kid and all of a sudden they start feeling valued by an adult, someone who's safe in their life, right? And then all of a sudden that kid will then start opening up about girls, sports, their own struggles, their own family. And then that's when you get to breathe life into the kid. Um, and then naturally all these teaching moments happen. Um, there's a great story. This was a few years ago. Um, you know, by this point, Cast Up's been around 12 years. You know, I, I've taught hundreds of kids how to fish by this point. Right. And we were doing a three boat trip.

There was, there was five kids and one, uh, adult supervising the trip. And the kid I had was just really struggling learning how to cast an indicator, We're just going to side drift. All we need to do is about 15, 20 foot cast max. And usually you can teach a kid in 15, 20 minutes, how to do it. Do a good enough that, you know, they're going to be productive. This kid was really struggling. He wasn't listening very well. You know, he wasn't taking, you know, critique to the, the casting. [00:20:00] After about 25 minutes, the other two boats had left and we're still sitting there and I can't get this kid to cast past like 10 feet. I mean, literally he could stick his rod out and drop his fly in the water and it would probably gone as far. Um, so, you know, he goes, this is terrible. I suck at this. Like, I don't, I don't want to fish anymore. I was like, well, you haven't even really fished yet. Like, how do you know you suck at it? Like, like, well, I just, I suck at casting. I was like, well, yeah, you're struggling, but you're not, you're not listening.

You need to put your listening ears on. Like, I can teach you how to do this, you know? So he stands back up, struggles for another 10 minutes. He goes, this is dumb. I'm not doing this today. Like, I'm just, I'm just going to sit and watch. I was like, is a teaching moment, right? This is a kid who's sitting in frustration.

We do the same thing as adults. So he's sitting there in frustration, you know? I was like, all right, man, here's your moment. All right. So if you give up without actually trying, you know, um, the rest of your life when school gets hard [00:21:00] when you have problems with your girlfriend or you're struggling in sports or whatever's happening in your life, you're just going to give up and sit on the sidelines. Like you'll never know what could happen. You'll never know the possibility. So I'll kind of take a risk here and I'll guarantee you that you can catch a fish if you listen to what I'm telling you, like, you can't do that. It's fishing. And so I'm taking a risk, right? We're on the Sacramento river.

It's just like. Incredible Western fishery. Uh, I was like, if you stand up and you give me a hundred percent effort and we're going to fish for the next five hours, if you listen to me and you try the whole five hours, I guarantee you're going to catch one. He stood up to prove me wrong. Like not, not for his own benefit.

He's like, Yeah, I mean, he's a teenager. He's like, you don't know what you're talking about, man. Like, I mean, even though I've been guiding for 20 years by this point, right? And so

Track 1: Right.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: up, he starts listening, you know, he makes a few changes. The next thing you know, he's casting 15, 20 [00:22:00] feet and like, okay, let's go. We go down a couple of runs. He whiffs on a couple of strikes and then 20 minutes later, he lands his first fish, you know, and then 30 minutes later, he lands his next fish. by the end of the morning, you know, this like five hour period, this kid lands nine fish. Right. And he catches more than any other kid on the trip.

And so now he's like beaming with pride. He's talking to his friend. How many fish did you catch? How big were they? He's like so pumped up on this moment. Right. And so we're done

Track 1: Right.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: We have a hundred yards to row off to the takeout, you know, we're just rowing. And I was like, man, you need to turn around and look at me, you know?

And so he turns around. I was like this morning, told me you sucked. You told fishing was dumb. I'm never going to do this again. And now you're glowing like a light bulb because of the pride that you showed, because you went through frustration and you worked through it. Right. So the next time.

Track 1: Yeah, it's huge.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: when you get that D in school, you need to study harder. Or the next time you have a struggle with a friend, like you can't [00:23:00] just walk away and just ignore the issue. Like have to communicate and. There's these beautiful teaching moments that can happen. Um, it happens with my, with your kids, with my kids, right? Like there's these moments that fishing creates that these kids don't get the rest, the rest of their, you know, situations are alive. Um, so it's just this natural, thing. Um, I mean, we've been around for

Track 1: I love that.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: and there's, I mean, there's hundreds of these stories, right? Like just kids being encouraged

Track 1: Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Being encouraged by adults in their lives. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a really beautiful thing.

Track 1: Well, one thing, um, so like I said, I'm at page 81, um, in your second book, I have not read your first book. So talking about your, your second book a little bit, what one, one big thing I've noticed in In the book is that one thing that's really cool, at least about [00:24:00] your style and the way you're doing it. I mean, obviously, like you're super humble guy, but every story in here is essentially about someone else.

Um, and you know, it. It isn't, it's like regular people that are going out fishing. This isn't a cast hope kind of situation with, with these like kind of incredible primed teaching moments. What, what about guiding? And writing this book kind of caused you to, to write about others in the way that you did, as opposed to telling your story.

Um, does that make sense?

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Yeah, totally. Um, yeah, if you like the second one, um, the kind of the background of the books. [00:25:00] Um, my. I was hosting a trip Wyoming where my parents now own a house uh, I had six clients up there, uh, we were fishing the South Fork when I was guiding it, um, and one night we're sitting there drinking wine and one of my clients said, Hey, tell us one of your funny guide stories.

So I rattled off a story, uh, that turned into a second story and a third story. And, you know, next thing you know, I was there, we were there

Track 1: Right.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: and I'm just the kind of entertaining everyone. The next morning, my, my,

Track 1: Dance

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: yeah, my, my father was there. And so the next morning we're drinking coffee, just me and my dad.

And he goes, man, last night was so much fun. Like he goes, do you realize you had the whole table rolling for like three and a half hours? And I was like, yeah, it was great. Um, he goes, there's something there. Whether it's for our family or for yourself, um, I think you should write some of these down so you don't forget them, you know, and I kind of held [00:26:00] this thought in my head for a couple of years. Um, one day I was on my laptop working on cast soap. I kind of finished earlier than I planned on. And at that point we had littles like you do. I didn't really want to go home. And so I, uh,

Track 1: Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: decided. Yeah, I just. I just decided to open my laptop and start typing, and, um, I've been really blessed with this, uh, memory where I can kind of close my eyes, and if something memorable happens, it has to be memorable, I can close my eyes, and I can see it, I can feel it, I can, like, relive that whole moment, and so, I decided to, There's tons of books about fish, right?

There's tons of books about the big one that got away or the monster I caught. In my opinion, the interesting part of stories is the people and the situations that happen around the people, know? So, um, when you've guided thousands of days over two [00:27:00] decades, all kinds of crazy shit happens and inspirational moments happen. Um, and so. What I did is I kind of went into my own head and relived those moments, but then added some of my own funny humor and critique in those moments. And, um, I wrote the first book completely for myself. Uh, I didn't do it for anybody. I had no intention of making money. I, um, it was a process. I really enjoyed the creative process. What I've learned since is I really hate the editing process. Um, but

Track 1: I bet. I bet it's brutal.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: Oh, uh, there's people you can pay to do that, so thank God. Um, and after I published the first one, uh, it was really humbling. Um, a month later, I self published, I

Track 1: can you

Sorry, keep going. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: You're good. Um, so yeah, so, uh, the first book's called A Real Job. [00:28:00] Um, uh, a month after I self published on Amazon, uh, I got this message from someone on the East Coast, on social media. Sent me an Instagram message and said, Hey, just read your book. This is the best book I've read in years. Um, thank you so much for doing this. And I was like blown away. I was like, What do you mean that's the best book you've read all in years? Do you mean like, um, And a week later it was another message. And then two weeks later it was a couple of messages. And then a couple of months in someone's like, please tell me you're writing a sequel.

And I was like, what, what do you mean writing a sequel? Like that never even crossed my

Track 1: That's awesome.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: know? Um,

Track 1: Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: you know, it's one thing when you're talking to your friends and family, like you don't know if you can trust what they're saying, right? Like you don't know if their feedback, like everyone's just blowing smoke. Um, but it's

Track 1: Well, especially as an only child,

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: yes,

Track 1: you know,

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: And

Track 1: you're just [00:29:00] the V's knees, man. Yeah.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: that, yeah, that's correct. Um, so this just kept happening and then like people I've never met from across the country and then all of a sudden other countries, you know, Japan, Brazil, you know, Europe,

Track 1: cool.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: and it just kind of kept snowballing. Um, you know, is it a bestseller?

No, but not, no, by not by any means. Um, you know, at this point, my first book is sold in like 1800 copies. Um, but as a first time effort.

Track 1: It's awesome. Congratulations, man.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: yeah, I

Track 1: That's pretty cool.

squadcaster-i7e7_1_03-18-2024_162710: humbled and proud about that at the same time. Um,[00:30:00]

Track 1: Yeah,

sweet.[00:31:00]

I'm sure. Well, it's like a, I mean, a lot of, uh, it's, it's obvious that a lot of effort went into it. Um, and I imagine the payoff just of getting the thing published and out there is, uh, is a relief in and of itself. And probably gives you a little bit more time to get out on the water. Um, there, there's one paragraph that I was drawn to in the experts chapter on page 61.

You say, an expert doesn't know everything. An expert does know a lot. With a deep understanding of how the a lot fits together. Let's be honest, the term expert gets tossed around frequently, but the meaning of the term often lies in the perspective of the person using it. And when I read that, I was wondering, because this book is it, it seems to me like it's a collection of not only is it a collection of a lot of really good stories, but it's, [00:32:00] it's a collection of.

life lessons that people can kind of pick and choose how they relate to it. Um, but when I read that, cause it obviously after the, the time you have spent on the water, you are undoubtedly an expert, but have you, Gained anything and learned anything from the folks you guide.[00:33:00]

Yeah, all right, buddy.[00:34:00]

Whoa.

Right.[00:35:00]

They creep up.[00:36:00]

That's cool.

Oh, dude.

Yeah.[00:37:00]

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the, the therapeutic part of it is like, yeah,

it's cool. Uh, and, and what you said about fly fishing, just how it's, [00:38:00] it's this, um, thing that you cannot master. I'm like in on again, off again, jujitsu practitioner to, uh, uh, No claim to being any good. I just get choked a lot, but it is also one of these, uh, it's one of these art forms that you will never master.

There's, there are kind of, you know, your prototypical ancient techniques that, that you learn. But I mean, the, the sport itself just continually develops. Like you'll never even meet a black belt who says that they are truly an expert in the sport. You know, and, and 20 years in with the number of hours you've done guiding, uh, at least, you know, with like trout nymphing, it's like, you're, you're a black belt guide, uh, for that, you know, you, you could still go out there [00:39:00] and learn, um, what.

So regarding guiding, um, I have not done many guided trips. In fact, I've only done one when I was like 12 out in, uh, out in Wyoming actually. And, uh, and it was like the coolest experience I'd ever had. They, it was my dad and I, we were floating down a river. Can't even tell you which one it is, but. A moose like entered the water and the, the guides just like rowing back, just kind of holding us in place and the moose is like, you know, up to its neck and in the water and it's big antlers are sticking out and it just slowly moves across.

Um, like that was cool, but what are some red flags to you for anyone out there? That's. [00:40:00] That's interested in, in looking up a guide to go fishing with, be it here in the States or overseas, what are red flags to you as a guide when someone gets in the boat

and you're like, Oh, this is going to be a long day.

All right. Same as those kids[00:41:00]

for, for, for anyone out there. That's not. For anyone out there that's like a beginner. Can you describe indicator nymphing?[00:42:00] [00:43:00]

Yeah, river runs through it, man.[00:44:00]

Hell yeah Yeah.[00:45:00]

Nice.

Spent the night at a Grateful Death concert and just made it.

He sounds great. I already love them.

Okay. So rule, yeah, rule number one is always look cool. I guess. Right? [00:46:00] Okay.

It's like, well, then you don't need a guide, do you?

What, I guess along the same lines, what are, I mean, the obvious, there's the relationships that you have formed and it sounds like the, the guiding experience and the relationships you formed have been incredibly rewarding. But. Beyond that, just spending the day on the water with someone new, what are some of the, the great takeaways you've had, you know, for your, for your one timers that come out on the water with you?[00:47:00]

More hardcore. Yeah.[00:48:00] [00:49:00]

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Right. You'll lose your rod.

Yeah. Yeah. It's good advice. I think it's really good advice. Um, do you tie [00:50:00] all your own flies or, or do you work with the, uh, the local outfitters?

Oh, really? Sorry, if you can see my, I've got my mess back here. My fly tying mess. Just crap everywhere.

Yeah,

yeah.[00:51:00]

Right,

right.

Cool. I, I, I respect that. I mean, I use it cause I, um, like I still need that therapy, but I just don't have the time with life in general to get out fishing as much as I'd like. But the way I can still stay connected to it is to, to tie flies and just chill back here at the meditation station. [00:52:00] Regarding what?

Yeah,

yeah, right.

Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

It makes a lot of sense. I'm glad you found your your writing outlet. You know, it's cool. It must it must fill some void that you had. And that's, that's cool. Regarding conservation. So I know on the cast hope website, you know, one of the goals of the organization is to, you know, Um, as you talked about before, get kids out on the water and, and kind of create this experience for [00:53:00] them where they can find comfort and begin building relationships or, and, and learn how to just kind of deal with the stresses of life, um, in a, in a more productive way.

But the website also talks about. Introducing them to conservation and, and that sort of thing. And I think it's really natural for fly fishing to play in an important role in that. Just every angler I talk to, you kind of naturally become, uh, uh, uh, community conservationists in a way, because you, you end up caring about the local watersheds and waterways and, and pollution and all that.

But what sort of role has conservation played in your life and how has that changed from. From 2003 when you started to now. [00:54:00] And what have you seen change over those, you know, over 20 years?

Yeah.[00:55:00]

Oh, I didn't know that. That's cool.

Okay.[00:56:00]

Yeah.

Cool. Yeah.[00:57:00]

Yeah. Um, back to Cast Hope a little bit, is there a limit to how many times a year or in perpetuity a kid can attend Cast Hope, uh, experiences?

Cool. Okay.

Oh, that's awesome.[00:58:00]

Oh, dude, that, that has got to make you guys feel good. You know? I mean, that's just awesome. That's like full circle.[00:59:00]

Yeah.

He's got a good, good client list. Yeah.[01:00:00]

What are you, what are you running a pyramid scheme out there?

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. That's, I mean, way to go, Harry. That is it. That's just cool, man. What, um, advice would you give to those looking to get into guiding?

Like just [01:01:00] financially, really?

Yeah,

right. Why, what could go wrong?

Yeah.[01:02:00]

Yeah.[01:03:00]

For, uh, like looking back at my life. Yeah. Yeah, dude, you got it. Okay. Sorry. We'll, we'll wrap up soon.

No, that's okay.

If, if I could, uh, like looking back, if I was in college again, I would love to be, and that's one of the things with like local outfitters, I mean, some of the guides are so transient because they're home in the summer and then they're back in college, you know, or, or whatever. Maybe they got a job or something.

Um, But if I was, [01:04:00] if I was a, you know, 20 year old studying, I would, I would def I would 100 percent be guiding. Uh, but there's, I think probably a turning point and probably the same one that you faced is well, to be successful as a guide, if that's, if that's where my passion lies, like I need to dive in and do this, you know, like full time, if you want to make a career out of it, you gotta, you know, Assume the risk and jump in.

What would you tell someone who just graduated high school or just graduated college and now has a degree, but doesn't know what they're passionate about. And, but they're passionate about fly fishing and they want to get into guiding. What would you tell them?[01:05:00]

Right.[01:06:00]

Yeah.[01:07:00]

Yeah.[01:08:00]

And probably a lot of luck to some degree. I mean, location season. It's. Who you meet. It's the word of mouth. Uh, it's gotta be it. [01:09:00] The it, the, the, the terrain is rugged, I imagine, for trying to do it full-time and kind of as a career.

What,

so we talked, you know, a lot about men being guides. What advice? Uh, and, and I, it seems to me that the, although I think the fly fishing community is slowly diversifying a bit. [01:10:00] Um, I imagine still the overwhelming majority of guides are men. How would your advice, would your advice change at all? Um, for, uh, like female anglers out there and, and what are for female guides and what, what do female guides need to look out for is there, is there, are they added disadvantage, um, you know, because of that,

okay.[01:11:00]

Do you think there's, do you, yeah, sorry, go ahead.[01:12:00]

Do you think there's, um, do you think there's like a stigma at all for people out there that are, are looking for guides? Like, would they rather get a male guide than a female guide? Like, would that, you know, if they're, if they're looking for guides, you know, and I, I just ask kind of on, as I'm like exploring the, the, the fly fishing community more in depth, um, and just understanding the traditions, the traditionally [01:13:00] kind of white male dominated sport that, that fly fishing Um, although improving, you know, it, uh, I just wonder sometimes if there is a stigma out there.

I mean, I know I follow a ton of, of female anglers on social media and have met some like incredible women in the sport. Um, but for people that are out there just wanting to spend money to go on a guiding trip. I, you know, it just, I just wonder sometimes if there's a stigma, I don't know.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.[01:14:00]

Hmm.

It's good.[01:15:00]

Yeah. Well, I got to give a shout out to, uh, Miss Mayfly, who they make, um, waiters for women. And, um, I met, uh, those, the women that, that own the company down at the Virginia Fly and Wine Festival, and they're just awesome. Great people. And, uh, so if you are a, uh, female angler out there looking for waiters.

Check out Miss Mayfly for sure. Um, it's awesome to see that, uh, you know, like you said, I think, I think it is diversifying a bit and, um, you know, slowly, but surely as we, as we wind up, I call this last segment, the whip finish, uh, although I know you don't [01:16:00] like to tie flies, that is a, uh, fly time term, um, Is there, do you have any last parting thoughts, um, or anything you would like to tell people?

I know you've got cast hope and your own guiding company. Are there ways that people can follow you on social media? Um, or ways to get involved, donate, volunteer, whatever with cast hope.[01:17:00] [01:18:00]

I love that man. Couldn't agree. Couldn't agree more. Um, Thank you so much for agreeing to do this and, and hopping on here with me. I really appreciate it. And, um, I will make sure I finish really, [01:19:00] and I will pick up real job as well for any listeners out there. I will try to throw all of your links and your, uh, Amazon links as well in the podcast description, uh, to make it easy to click on.

Um, Ryan, yeah, really just appreciate you being here, man. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this.

It sounds good, man. And, um, good luck on the upcoming season and, uh, just keep grinding with, with cast hope. I think what you're doing, it's obviously already changing people's lives for the better. So I'm, I'm happy for you and thankful that you're doing it. Thanks, man.

All right, man. Thanks.

​[01:20:00]